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Alternative Lives R Available's avatar

It is a very interesting question and discussion. But I suspect the answer is more granular, more complex.

Western civilisation is based on fossil fuels, as we all know, and the fast-increasing sophistication of it's technology makes it more and more vulnerable to collapse. As an example, imagine if computers suffered a mass breakdown (EMP, a virus, an attack.....), our society wouldn't just lose social media and GPS, but our society's entire history of the last 40 years; all it's money would not just be inaccessible but records of it could disappear, and medical records, along with ownership of companies, even of your house. Your right to a Passport or 'papers' giving you citizenship. Your 'ownership' of your own children. The prisons would empty for lack of criminal records. The borders would either be open to all, or closed.

Most importantly, the supply networks, such as food and fuel, would have to start up again from scratch before we starved or froze, and without money to pay - would that even happen? Could we barter our way back to some kind of order? I really doubt it.

In contrast, many more basic societies, still nominally Capitalist on a smaller scale, have systems that are more resilient, so they may easily survive, barely noticing the chaos in the Western economies. So when you say Capitalism may collapse, the example above may suggest that the grand edifice of Western technological Capitalism could be wiped out, but still the belief in the framework and structure remain and quickly regrow, like a seedling exposed to sunlight.

We can say the same about 'the collapse of the Earth'. Personally, I expect the human population of the Earth to collapse from an unsustainable over-8 billion now back down to around 3 billion, which would still be more than the 2.4 billion it was when I was born in the 1950's. In doing so it would massively reduce the human component of Co2 emissions, as well as signifying a human retreat from human invasion of the biosphere, so allowing many species to reinhabit their lands and ecosystems.

In fact I would support Dr. James Lovelock's work on Gaia, and suggest that a Gaian Earth will itself respond to the 'virus' of humanity giving the Earth a high temperature with it's own cures, like pandemics and climate catastrophes and famines, until the human virus is reduced and the high temperature cured.

But a collapse in humanity is not a collapse of the Earth. As a 'Gaian' I'd see that as a rather messy cure, 'messy' because it would be great if this Gaian Earth could be a bit more selective about those problem people (Westerners with their excessive dependence on fossil fuels) and leave the rest alone!

So to sum up, I suspect the 'end of the world as we know it' will be an end of the vulnerable Westernised world as we know it and, in the process, a return to sustainable levels of humans and the re-establishment of a thriving ecosystem for the rest of life on Earth.

I'm not sure if that makes me an optimist or a pessimist?

Btw, I would like to imagine that the future society will develop a belief system, a 'bogeyman' story of how greedy people once almost destroyed our beautiful planet for an imaginary idea of wealth that, it turned out, didn't actually exist. Something like 'Pandora's Box' meets 'The Emperor's new clothes'.

Because otherwise in 1,000, 5,000 or 10,000 years tine, humans may be doing this shit all over again! Oh well........

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